Ok, I just got wind of the deal Virgin are proposing with these people, and I'm more than a little concerned.

I see they are working with both BT and Talk Talk too.

Ive tried to follow the points made at places like the register, but Im really not that technically aware , so a lot goes over my head.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/03...grul/comments/

Has anyone who actually understands this stuff got any comments.

It appears to me that basically a company whos history is murky at best, and known for developing adware/malware and pop up ads for the porn industry will have access to a copy of every web page impression I view, and data I send, ostensibly to give soem sort of phising protection, but mostly to 'profile' me for on line ads.

Given I work online, its worrying , more so that I dont truly understand everything that is proposed.

The fact they appear to have hired a PR team to pose as 'phorm tech department' to counter some of the more informed questions makes me worry even more.

Finding out the software was developed in russia, and the servers are hosted in china just adds to the unease.

Anyone know much about this?

first ive heard of it, but there are various ways to ensure you wont be affected by it.

The ads will be the easiest thing just use firefox and adblock plus or something equivalent.
There are also various security suites/software that will help protect you against them collecting data on you.

However im not sure wether virgin can actually legally do it to start with, atm i understand they are still undecided on what options the customers will have.

theres also this that ive come across: http://www.dephormation.org.uk/
but i am unsure of how effective it is.

There was a Q&A on the BBC which explained a few things, including how to opt out/block it.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7283333.stm

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Cheers,

Ratel

The ads dotn bother me, I use adblock plus so rarely see any regardless.

Its the profiling I dont like. Taking impressions of web pages/email forms etc , even though they claim its 'anonymized' , is extremely worrying.

The opt out appears to be little more than a cookie that tells them not to show directed ads, it doesnt seem to disable the duplication of all my web data to the profiling machines.

They say they wont use the info if they detect my opt out cookie, but then they also say they dont alter the datastream, surely the introduction of this cookie is altering the datastream for a start?

I think I'll be switching ISP if Virgin go with this.

There are simply too many unknowns , and potential security threats (having the ad servers in china read a cookie on my PC to know if they should show direct advertising or not is, to me, showing there is a chance of building an identity profile) to risk it.

I don't actually use my ISP's software so never have to instal any of their updates.... maybe they wont be able to instal this cak on my machines??

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L2P Quotes of teh Year 2007
kitchens kitchens kitchens

There's no install from what I can gather, you just get stuck with it profiling you when you access websites.

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http://lern2play.mine.nu/ !

how the fuck can they do that? surely there has to be some kind of install along the way... if its not a toolbar its gonna be some small script, which even good old IE warns you about and asks if you want to install it.

I was assuming that it'd come via BT's/Virgin's etc ISP software in the form of an update

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L2P Quotes of teh Year 2007
kitchens kitchens kitchens

The sites opt in to carry a tag for the shady monitoring chaps, I'm assuming they use that to record browsing habits and target you with ads.

The shadier part seems to be having no idea what other data they're gathering and what they're using it for.

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http://lern2play.mine.nu/ !

Seems to be a bot of confusion.

There is no software, its entirely hardware based.

The ISP/Phorm put a machine in the ISP's pipeline that DUPLICATES every piece of data you transmit/receive (other than specifiically https stuff, which is often only the log in screen inthe case of webmail) which it then processes in order to 'profile' you for targetted ads when you visit sites they are contracted to provide ads for.

Your data is duplicated/processed whether you opt in or out, and becomes a part of your ISP pipeline.

Would it still work if you use a proxy?

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Yep.

The servers are put into your ISP pipeline.

You have to go throught the data duplication to get out of your ISPs network.

Thats whats got me so worried about this, I dont understand some of the major security leeks that the tech guys talk about on places like the register.

I do however, understand that having copies of everything I look at, send and receive on the internet accessible to a 3rd party cannot be in any way a good thing.